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Analysis of the 335 and G37 (warning, math heavy)

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Old 07-02-2009, 09:12 PM
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Analysis of the 335 and G37 (warning, math heavy)

The age old question never goes away. Which is faster? Which creates more power?

The aim of this analysis is to determine, which is "better"? from a purely mathematical standpoint. Real world results WILL vary.

The facts:

The G37 revs higher by 500 RPM.
The G37 has more gears and more agressive gearing
The 335 is twin-turbo, while the G37 is NA.

Let us review a dyno of both engines first.

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The dynos makes a few things clear.

The 335 has more torque, both peak, and midrange. However, the 335's torque steadily declines as you rev higher and higher.

The G37's torque doesn't have that sudden jump, but the curve is much smoother, and doesn't have that severe dropoff that the 335 does. This is important, since the G37 also revs higher.

The horsepower curves show that the G37 continues to climb in power, all the way to redline (showing that raising the redline would have beneficial power gains on this car), while the BMW chokes, and declines in power as it nears redline.

The graphs also show, that at any RPM before 6000, the BMW makes more power. However, after 6000 RPM, the G37 makes more power.



Now, to address the question: which is faster? Your average 335 supporter will state the 335. It's easy. It has more torque they say. Hell, even a lot of G37 owners will say the same, as they've had a few bad experiences already and have learned the hard way.

However, at this point, I'd point out that when you race, you are not using the middle or bottom of the powerband. You only use the top. (This is key to those reflashes available for the 335; the reflashes decrease/eliminate the torque dropoff toward redline, significantly increasing horsepower.). To further convolute this, the G37 has more agressive gearing, and more gears. How can we ever figure this out?

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This is a graph of the torque the G37 generates to the wheels, accounting for gearing. Your typical dyno graph uses adjustments in an attempt to isolate power made just by the engine. This graph does not do that (and thus, the numbers are much higher).

Now, some more graphs.

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This graph shows the torque put to the wheels at any given speed at wide open throttle for both cars.

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This graph shows the power put to the wheels at any given speed at wide open throttle for both cars.

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Finally, a graph of all 4.

What information can we get out of this? When gearing is factored for, the BMW doesn't really have a significant torque advantage at any speed higher than 30 MPH.

It does have an advantage between 60 and 70 MPH, so if you're racing against one, don't start at those speeds. This is confirmed by the higher HP output between 60 and 70.

But, look at the HP curve. The g37's advantages definitely add up to more than the 335's advantages....



Coming soon: Additional analysis including: Weight, power-to-weight ratio, and aerodynamics also factored in.

Last edited by mIKE; 07-04-2009 at 05:49 PM.
Old 07-02-2009, 09:15 PM
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reserved for future use.
Old 07-02-2009, 09:19 PM
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reserved for future use.

Also, please note this analysis does not factor in tire deformation.
Old 07-02-2009, 09:19 PM
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Good write up Mike. You must be really boring right now. haha

However, I do believe that the G37 weighs a lot more than the 335. 50 lbs is 50 lbs. 100 is 100. Although their hp/tq curves are very different, I'm pretty certain that 335 is faster in the straight. Also, 335 is easier to mod (At least power-wise).
Old 07-02-2009, 09:45 PM
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I own a 335i and I test drove a few G37's before I made my purchase. While both are great cars, I will say the 335i definetly without a doubt feels faster than the G37. I would say the weight of the G37 plays a lot into this. Just my .02.
Old 07-02-2009, 09:51 PM
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Where did you get the dyno's from? Does a stock G37 really put down ~280whp?
Old 07-02-2009, 09:55 PM
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Both original dynos are sourced from automobilemag.com
Old 07-04-2009, 09:18 AM
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280 whp, sounds about right.

Nice write up. Without power to weight factored in we still don't know who would win on a all out run.

The 335 will defiantely 'feel' faster driving around town because of the low end torque advantage. Drive them both WOT over 5k rpm and the g35 will 'feel' faster instead. Throw a TT on the g37 (or any G for that matter) and it's game over for the bimmer!!!
Old 07-04-2009, 01:21 PM
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Some things to consider here:

1) The 335i is anywhere from 100 to 150lbs lighter than a G37 sedan or coupe.

2) The 335i has a lot more low and midrange power will allows it to launch off the line with a lot more thrust and less rpm therefore utilizing it's major midrange advantage.

3) The 335i has a MUCH more powerful midrange and contrary to what's stated in this the first post, midrange power is where your car spends most of it's time accelerating in a race. The last 500-800rpms is not that significant until you get into the taller and longer gears. From 0-120mph, the BMW has the advantage.

4) Even with torque multiplication, the G is at a disadvantage because of it's weight and much lower torque curve. The BMW doesn't need all the torque muliplication because it has a torquey motor therefore it can be geared lowered and doesn't have to live it's life in the higher revs like the G. The BMW makes it's power from artifical displacement. The G makes it's power from revs. I'll take displacement any day compared to rpm. It's a lot more forgiving and less needy.

5) $800 and that BMW will go 12.5-12.7s. It will take $$$$ to get the G37 to go as quickly.

6) The 335i is a better handling machine, overall

7) The 335i gets MUCH better mpgs too.
Old 07-04-2009, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
Some things to consider here:

1) The 335i is anywhere from 100 to 150lbs lighter than a G37 sedan or coupe.

2) The 335i has a lot more low and midrange power will allows it to launch off the line with a lot more thrust and less rpm therefore utilizing it's major midrange advantage.

3) The 335i has a MUCH more powerful midrange and contrary to what's stated in this the first post, midrange power is where your car spends most of it's time accelerating in a race. The last 500-800rpms is not that significant until you get into the taller and longer gears. From 0-120mph, the BMW has the advantage.

4) Even with torque multiplication, the G is at a disadvantage because of it's weight and much lower torque curve. The BMW doesn't need all the torque muliplication because it has a torquey motor therefore it can be geared lowered and doesn't have to live it's life in the higher revs like the G. The BMW makes it's power from artifical displacement. The G makes it's power from revs. I'll take displacement any day compared to rpm. It's a lot more forgiving and less needy.

5) $800 and that BMW will go 12.5-12.7s. It will take $$$$ to get the G37 to go as quickly
.

6) The 335i is a better handling machine, overall

7) The 335i gets MUCH better mpgs too.
Actually, the fastest piggy back only (no other parts like downpipes, etc) went [email protected] and [email protected] with AM rims and DRs.
Old 07-05-2009, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djamps View Post
280 whp, sounds about right.

Nice write up. Without power to weight factored in we still don't know who would win on a all out run.

The 335 will defiantely 'feel' faster driving around town because of the low end torque advantage. Drive them both WOT over 5k rpm and the g35 will 'feel' faster instead. Throw a TT on the g37 (or any G for that matter) and it's game over for the bimmer!!!
Yes I agree...but throw an exhaust, intake, and a tune on a 335i and they can be beasts as well (400+whp), and not cost anywhere near what a TT kit for a G37 costs.
Old 07-05-2009, 07:38 AM
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Edmunds () ran dyno test and I think may have arrived at similar (not identical) numbers (I don't recall now).

The real question is where the "rubber meets the road." On the 1/4 mile, the 2008 G37 ran it at 13.8 seconds 102mph and did 0-60 at 5.4 seconds: the BMW did the quarter mile in 13.4 seconds 103.4 mph and pulled the 0-60 at 4.8 seconds. Their final comment following the test results was: . "I'm not sure what the price difference is, but the BMW feels $15,000 better."

Too bad BMW's reliability and dependability are nearly at at rock bottom! Pick your poison!
Old 07-05-2009, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infiniti Chica View Post
Too bad BMW's reliability and dependability are nearly at at rock bottom! Pick your poison!
Actually, in terms of long term dependability, BMW is the best ranked German marque and their 3 series is is actually quite reliable. I wouldn't touch a 7-series with a ten-foot pole, though.
Old 07-05-2009, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
Actually, in terms of long term dependability, BMW is the best ranked German marque and their 3 series is is actually quite reliable. I wouldn't touch a 7-series with a ten-foot pole, though.
Best ranked within it's category of German and European cars I assume is what you're saying. When compared to Japanese models (Acura, Lexus, Infiniti and possibly the Genesis at some point) and now a small number of American cars, the BMW's do not stack up based on Consumer Reports, Edmunds, JD Powers and other rating systems.

I would love to own a BMW, but not at the cost of having a repair shop name a wing or conference room after me.

OP, sorry for hijacking your thread.
Old 07-05-2009, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Their final comment following the test results was: . "I'm not sure what the price difference is, but the BMW feels $15,000 better."

Too bad BMW's reliability and dependability are nearly at at rock bottom! Pick your poison!
Take that $15k in savings over the bimmer and have GTM make it a 600whp TT G37. Yes, the stock block can take over 600whp with a basic TT kit, exhaust and a reflash. Now what's the better 'bang for the buck'.

Nissan FTMFW.

Last edited by djamps; 07-05-2009 at 01:31 PM.

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