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Old 03-11-2016, 12:46 PM
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Staggered Wheels Rotation

Hi Guys,

So i have the 2008 G37 MT wheels on my 08 Journey. I know they are staggered, and i know you are NOT supposed to rotate staggered wheels. However, what if i got the same size tires for all 4 wheels? am i going to run into an issues if i rotate? Fyi...i have the Eibach sport springs also.

thank you!
Joe
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Old 03-11-2016, 01:44 PM
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You will have issues considering the width of the actual wheels are different. The fronts are 8.5" and rears are 9" wheels. So even with the same size tire, the handling dynamics will be off. I know people who want a "square" setup usually get either 4 fronts, or 4 rears and go from there.
Old 03-11-2016, 01:53 PM
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I think he means rotating side to side.

OP NEVER run a radial tire in the opposite direction from which it has already been run. There are gonna be people who tell you that that advice is old and outdated (from days of bias-ply tires), but I assure you it is not. I ruined a car by doing it once; trust me. The only way to rotate them is to remove them from the wheel and put put them on opposite sides being mindful to mount them so that they'll be rolling in the same direction as before (insides of the tire should be on the outside).

That being said, if it's an asymmetrical tire, there is zero chance of rotating them.
Old 03-11-2016, 02:24 PM
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He said something about getting the same sized tires all around, so I assumed he wants to rotate front to back like a normal setup.

Yeah, side to side rotation is kind of pointless. Unless you have directional tires and have them removed from the wheel and moved to the other side to help with camber wear.

My conti DWS are an "inner/outer side" setup, so I can't even do that.
Old 03-11-2016, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joesmithf1 View Post
Hi Guys,

So i have the 2008 G37 MT wheels on my 08 Journey. I know they are staggered, and i know you are NOT supposed to rotate staggered wheels. However, what if i got the same size tires for all 4 wheels? am i going to run into an issues if i rotate? Fyi...i have the Eibach sport springs also.

thank you!
Joe
Joe, one thing you will run into is the little bolts that are installed on the hubs to prevent you from putting the rears on the front, and the fronts on the rear. You will need to remove them for the wheels to sit flat on the hub. It won't hurt anything to remove them, but you will loose the "failsafe" that was intended to prevent you from doing precisely what you are trying to do.

Since the wheels are staggered sizes, another consideration for you is that, by running the same size tires all around, it will mean you have poor tire (width) fitment on one end or the other. It is not critical if you are basically doing it for looks and rotating convenience, but it is certainly less than optimal for any high performance driving. As will always be the case, if your desire is to run 4 equal sized tires AND have excellent handling performance characteristics, then you should run 4 equal sized wheels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScraggleRock View Post
I think he means rotating side to side.

OP NEVER run a radial tire in the opposite direction from which it has already been run. There are gonna be people who tell you that that advice is old and outdated (from days of bias-ply tires), but I assure you it is not. I ruined a car by doing it once; trust me. The only way to rotate them is to remove them from the wheel and put put them on opposite sides being mindful to mount them so that they'll be rolling in the same direction as before (insides of the tire should be on the outside).

That being said, if it's an asymmetrical tire, there is zero chance of rotating them.
What the heck are you talking about?

There is just so much complete misinformation there!!

That bit of info would ONLY apply if the tires are designated as "DIRECTIONAL", which most tires are NOT! Pretty much every ordinary car out there runs their tires in opposite rotation every time they have them rotated. And that is a rotation schedule which is required by the manufacturer (no less) to meet warranty requirements.

I don't know what voodoo you had going on with your car in the past that "ruined it" by rotating the tires, but I can assure you, it was not the root cause.

What's more, flipping your tires (across their chassis mount orientation) so that the "insides become the outsides" is ONLY something you do with a directional tire, and NEVER something you do with an asymmetrical tire.

Your last comment about Asymmetrical tires also makes no sense, since (even with staggered setup) you can always rotate them side-to-side (and without staggered setup they can go anywhere).

TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR
, the only instance where you cannot rotate your tires at all, would be where you have a staggered set of tires which are both asymmetrical AND directional, which is a fairly rare setup. It literally means you buy each tire specifically designated for the right or left side of the car (rotation direction and inside vs. outside designation will be printed right on the sidewall), and in two different sizes for the front end and rear end.
Old 03-11-2016, 05:57 PM
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hi everyone, thank you for all your inputs. I meant to say rotate the rear wheels to the front and vice versa. But apparently that is a bad idea. thank you again! i'll not do the rotate.
Old 03-11-2016, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joesmithf1 View Post
hi everyone, thank you for all your inputs. I meant to say rotate the rear wheels to the front and vice versa. But apparently that is a bad idea. thank you again! i'll not do the rotate.
For your intentions, exactly which part of it would be bad? Just curious.
Old 03-12-2016, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vqsmile View Post
Joe, one thing you will run into is the little bolts that are installed on the hubs to prevent you from putting the rears on the front, and the fronts on the rear. You will need to remove them for the wheels to sit flat on the hub. It won't hurt anything to remove them, but you will loose the "failsafe" that was intended to prevent you from doing precisely what you are trying to do.

Since the wheels are staggered sizes, another consideration for you is that, by running the same size tires all around, it will mean you have poor tire (width) fitment on one end or the other. It is not critical if you are basically doing it for looks and rotating convenience, but it is certainly less than optimal for any high performance driving. As will always be the case, if your desire is to run 4 equal sized tires AND have excellent handling performance characteristics, then you should run 4 equal sized wheels.




What the heck are you talking about?

There is just so much complete misinformation there!!

That bit of info would ONLY apply if the tires are designated as "DIRECTIONAL", which most tires are NOT! Pretty much every ordinary car out there runs their tires in opposite rotation every time they have them rotated. And that is a rotation schedule which is required by the manufacturer (no less) to meet warranty requirements.

I don't know what voodoo you had going on with your car in the past that "ruined it" by rotating the tires, but I can assure you, it was not the root cause.

What's more, flipping your tires (across their chassis mount orientation) so that the "insides become the outsides" is ONLY something you do with a directional tire, and NEVER something you do with an asymmetrical tire.

Your last comment about Asymmetrical tires also makes no sense, since (even with staggered setup) you can always rotate them side-to-side (and without staggered setup they can go anywhere).

TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR
, the only instance where you cannot rotate your tires at all, would be where you have a staggered set of tires which are both asymmetrical AND directional, which is a fairly rare setup. It literally means you buy each tire specifically designated for the right or left side of the car (rotation direction and inside vs. outside designation will be printed right on the sidewall), and in two different sizes for the front end and rear end.
I think you missed the part where he said they were staggered, so obviously he will not be rotating front to back. Now, that being said, what's the only other option? Side to side. So, tell me exactly, vqsmile, how you would rotate an asymmetrical tire side to side? EVEN IF you were to change the direction of the tire (which I'll go into further in a moment) what do you think happens when you take a passenger front tire for instance, turn it around and put it on the driver side..(so the the "outside tag is still on the outside)? You following me yet? The outside is still on the outside..following me yet? He's still left in the same situation where the old inside is..(following me yet?)..is STILL ON THE INSIDE! Only now it's on the other side of the car. All camber and toe wear issues would be exactly the same. You wouldn't be prolonging the life of the tire, which is (last I checked) the point of rotating tires.

Ok, so onto changing the direction of radial tires (directional or not). The directional tire simply means that that's how it must be mounted from the get go. Non direction (or non asymmetrical) tires can be mounted either way when new. Once they have been driven on however, you should NEVER change the direction of their drive. You, by no means, have to believe me. Please, go change the direction of all your tires so that one day I can say I told you so (cuz that's just the kind of guy I am). So, I was told by a tire expert about this, and here's what he said: "you know when you see just the tread of a tire on the side of the road?" I said yeah, and he said, "that's what happens when you change the direction of a tire after its already been worn in the opposite direction". I said pretty much what you said, like 'whatevs'. Then one day I had a bitchin camaro, and I got some meaty tires from my friend that he had used for 5k miles. I just threw em on (still had the little rubber finger nub things and everything). Guess what happened..? After a few weeks driving on them the tread separated from the tire and violently whipped about while I was on the freeway and thrashed my fender.

So, yeah, please, by all means go change the direction of you tires that have already been driven on and let me know how it works out for you.
Old 03-12-2016, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScraggleRock View Post

I think you missed the part where he said they were staggered, so obviously he will not be rotating front to back. Now, that being said, what's the only other option? Side to side. So, tell me exactly, vqsmile, how you would rotate an asymmetrical tire side to side? EVEN IF you were to change the direction of the tire (which I'll go into further in a moment) what do you think happens when you take a passenger front tire for instance, turn it around and put it on the driver side..(so the the "outside tag is still on the outside)? You following me yet? The outside is still on the outside..following me yet? He's still left in the same situation where the old inside is..(following me yet?)..is STILL ON THE INSIDE! Only now it's on the other side of the car. All camber and toe wear issues would be exactly the same. You wouldn't be prolonging the life of the tire, which is (last I checked) the point of rotating tires.

Ok, so onto changing the direction of radial tires (directional or not). The directional tire simply means that that's how it must be mounted from the get go. Non direction (or non asymmetrical) tires can be mounted either way when new. Once they have been driven on however, you should NEVER change the direction of their drive. You, by no means, have to believe me. Please, go change the direction of all your tires so that one day I can say I told you so (cuz that's just the kind of guy I am). So, I was told by a tire expert about this, and here's what he said: "you know when you see just the tread of a tire on the side of the road?" I said yeah, and he said, "that's what happens when you change the direction of a tire after its already been worn in the opposite direction". I said pretty much what you said, like 'whatevs'. Then one day I had a bitchin camaro, and I got some meaty tires from my friend that he had used for 5k miles. I just threw em on (still had the little rubber finger nub things and everything). Guess what happened..? After a few weeks driving on them the tread separated from the tire and violently whipped about while I was on the freeway and thrashed my fender.

So, yeah, please, by all means go change the direction of you tires that have already been driven on and let me know how it works out for you.

I'm sorry if you're feeling butt hurt because I called out your BS, but there no need to get cute. I understand perfectly all the ramifications of rotating tires with a staggered setup, far more than you in fact, so it's certainly not me that needs the schooling here. Also, since it was you that misinterpreted the OP's intention right off the bat, I'd encourage you to work on your reading comprehension a bit more because you apparently missed a lot of what was clearly written.

I'm not going to even bother getting into some pissing match with you over this because you've clearly convinced yourself that you know better than the entire tire industry. Good luck with your tire rotations in the future.
Old 03-12-2016, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScraggleRock

MY reading comprehension? Haha he said he had a staggered setup in the first line of the OP.
Just keep reading it, it should become clear .


Quote:
Originally Posted by joesmithf1 View Post
Hi Guys,

So i have the 2008 G37 MT wheels on my 08 Journey. I know they are staggered, and i know you are NOT supposed to rotate staggered wheels. However, what if i got the same size t ires for all 4 wheels? am i going to run into an issues if i rotate? Fyi...i have the Eibach sport springs also.

thank you!
Joe
Old 03-12-2016, 04:28 PM
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Again, go change the direction of your non directional tires that have already been driven on and let me know how that works out for you. Then go ahead and wast your time flipping asymmetrical tires on a staggered setup and lemme know how much extra life you get out of them. Haha
Old 03-12-2016, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ScraggleRock View Post
Again, go change the direction of your non directional tires that have already been driven on and let me know how that works out for you. Then go ahead and wast your time flipping asymmetrical tires on a staggered setup and lemme know how much extra life you get out of them. Haha
Dude, this is so sad for you. Just stop already.
Old 03-12-2016, 04:49 PM
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Dude, this is so sad for you. Just stop already.
I'm not sad at all, my friend. and I'm pretty sure I did stop when I deleted the comment I made cuz I don't care to argue about this. You believe flipping asymmetrical tires from side to side is cool, and rotating staggered wheels from front to back is somehow advantageous; that's all good man, we're done here. How bout you change the direction of your attitude and hopefully your tread will stay in tact. Peace, broham.
Old 03-12-2016, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScraggleRock View Post
...

You believe flipping asymmetrical tires from side to side is cool,

and rotating staggered wheels from front to back is somehow advantageous...
And never once did I say either one of those things.

Again with the reading comprehension issues, eh?
Old 03-12-2016, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by vqsmile View Post

Your last comment about Asymmetrical tires also makes no sense, since (even with staggered setup) you can always rotate them side-to-side (and without staggered setup they can go anywhere).
Please, tire God, tell me you didn't say this.

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